(Paris,
November 15th 2007)
« Today there is no any no-go area in Somalia »
« The terrorists are now reduced to
fragmented elements creating security concerns »
« Today Somalia has institutions, wether
they are fully functional or not is not what matters »
Les nouvelles d’Addis. – The situation in the Horn of Africa will be the
main subject of this interview. But first may I ask the reason of your visit
to Paris ?
Seyum
Mesfin. – I came for regular bilateral consultations and exchange of
notes on regional and international matters. I met the Minister of Foreign
Affairs, Mr Kouchner and his team and this morning I had meetings involving
other Departments on the basis of bilateral cooperation.
LNA. – I shall go back to this later but let us start with the hottest
place in the Horn : Somalia. When Ethiopian troops were sent to help the
Transitional Federal Government (TFG) and his president Abdullahi Yusuf,
Prime Minister Meles Zenawi said : we shall withdraw very soon. Eleven
months later every observer sees that the intervention in Somalia has not
been a success. What can you say about the present situation in Mogadiscio ?
SM. –
The situation has remarkably improved when compared to what Mogadiscio and
Somalia were before December last year. During the last eleven months there
is a lot of transformation in the sort of capability building of the
institutions of Somalia, the TFG, the parliament and some other
institutions. But as well the security area. You know, most of Somalia was a
no-go area just a year ago. Today there is no any no-go area in Somalia. But
of course it does not mean that there are no security concerns in the
country. Mogadiscio is one. The extreme south of Somalia is another. One
region in central Somalia, Galguduud, is also a security concern because it
is vulnerable to international terrorist groups. But relatively the
situation has greatly improved and it will continue to improve day after
day.
LNA. – Press reports do not present the same picture and an American
scholar, Dr Michael Weinstein, has written that the Ethiopian military
operation in Somalia is a “disastrous miscalculation”. In addition the
African Union has not been able to send 8000 soldiers as pledged, the UN
Secretary General thinks that it would not be adequate to send a
peacekeeping mission and yesterday the special envoy of Le Monde
describes a war without frontline and without rules. Does the Ethiopian
leadership believe in a military solution in Somalia ?

SM. –
Let me say this : military solution cannot be a solution for a political
crisis. Naturally the problems of Somalila have of political nature. There
is no doubt about this. But let us talk about the reality instead of
speculations and assumptions. Where is the miscalculation ? Somalia was a
failed State for the last 15-16 years. Today Somalia has institutions,
wether they are fully functional or not is not what matters. Today Somalia
has a duly constituted transitional government, a federal transitional
charter and a federal parliament. This was not the story some years back.
There is a transformation from lawlessness and absolute anarchy into the
establishment of rule of law and transformation towards peace building. So
this does not indicate that Somalia is going from bad to worse but from
worse coming to rule of law. There is radical improvement. Secondly : what
is miscalculation ? To leave Somalia in the hands of international
terrorists, talibanists, califates ? Today the nation is beeing governed by
transitional federal institutions where all clans and sub clans are
involved. So where is the disaster ? Truly, Mogadiscio and the rest of
Somalia was ruled by terrorists and extremists affiliated to al-Qaida. Today
they do not exist as elaborate organization but they still pose a threat to
public security. So where is the disaster ? To me what analysts and
speculators are saying is that they are not totally grasping the
transformation that is taking place in Somalia. What they are feeding to the
international community (IC) is what they think is sensational for selling
their news. Sensationalism does not help in establishing and building peace
in a country. Somalia has entered in a peacebulding process. Like all
peacebuilding processes, it cannot be challenge free. It is rather a big
challenge to the Somalis themselves, to the entire region of Africa and to
the IC. Now, the African Union decided to send a peacekeeping mission in
Somalia to replace the Ethiopian troops and assist the peacebuilding.
Unfortunately it is only the Ugandan peacemission that is in place in
Mogadiscio. There are other countries willing to deploy troops like Burundi,
Malawi, Ghana and Nigeria. What is lacking is not the good will, the
political will and commitment of African countries sending their troops to
Somalia. What is lacking is the ressources. Europe is saying : Somalia is
not our priority. The UN is saying they are overstretched, they have many
agendas full at hands. So the IC is continuing to put Somalia at the
backburner. Somalia is a country that has failed. The IC has a
responsability to discharge here. It is a threat to international peace and
the IC is urged to provide the ressources, to assist in the peacebuilding.
This is what is lacking.
LNA. – The problem is that the method of the IC has been to create a
Somalian government from the top. There was another theory about block
building. That is to encourage local authorities like Somaliland, like
Puntland, like Bay and Bakool. The paradox is that the UN have always
maintained the fiction of a united Somalia which does not exist anymore.
Another paradox is that Ethiopia has sent an ambassador to Mogadiscio where
the government has hardly the means to control its territory but there is no
ambassador in Hargeisa where there is peace for about 12 years. One could
think that one would encourage more those who have obtained results in
building peace.
SM. –
Let me indicate this. You are right. Somaliland has been an island of peace
for over a decade. And the IC would rather adopt a policy of reticence and
wait and see towards Hargeisa and Somaliland. And it was trying to assist
those who have been destroying Somalia, the warlords. But this does not mean
that the IC was not, through various means, trying to encourage the Somalis
to sort out their problems. They are primarly responsible for changing the
present reality of their country. You said that the IC was trying to impose
a solution for Somalia from the top which is rather the contrary. For the
last two and a half years Somalis of various walks, religious leaders, clan
leaders, scholars, civic societies, including many of the warlords, sat in
Kenya. After two and a half years of protracted talks and dialogues the
Somalis have formulated a national transitional charter upon which the
transitional government and parliament have been established. This is a
transformation. Secondly, what happened during the summer is a very well
formulated development of Somalia. Again more than 2000 representatives of
grassroots Somalis, both from inside and from the diaspora sat for 45 days
in Mogadiscio which would have been totally unforseeable to happen inside
the country because it never happened before. They have come up with
concrete recommendations on the way forward. They presented them to the
government and the government endorsed them, took it to the parliament.
Again the parliament has endorsed them. On the basis of which these
institutions are now preparing a new transitional government with the
departure of Mohammed Gedi. And we are optimistic to see that this would
give an opportunity to establish a functioning government, a technocratic
government, that would assist Somalia to continue with the peacebuilding
process.
And then the question of Somaliland. I do agree with you that there has been
a total neglect of those who have been trying to build a region. They have
to get support. But on the issue of Somaliland and of the rest of Somalia,
it is truly the Somalis themselves to resolve this crisis. No one would
stand on the way of what the Somalilanders would decide. It all depends on
the dialogue and on the solution for Somaliland that would be also perceived
by the rest of Somalia. The question of Somaliland cannot be solved by
violence and by mean of force. They have to enter into dialogue and address
the question wether to reconstitute Somalia. I accept with you that Somalia
cannot be reconstituated the old way.
LNA. – May I add that Ethiopia has made bad experiences with to much
centralism. So how could Somalia be again a centralized country when it has
failed for so long ?
SM. –
What Ethiopia has done is on the basis of its own realities and solutions to
the long standing problems. We would not advise any other country, be it in
the neighbourhood or afar, to copy the Ethiopian model because copying model
would not work. But I do agree with you that Somalia cannot be rebuilt the
old way. A new reality has emerged. The various regions of Somalia are
insisting for decentralized state structures. Somaliland is pushing along a
line of secession. So definitely there is a new reality of Somalia that the
Somalis have to face. Our job as a region and also the international
community, is to assist the Somalis to address this problem by peacful
means.
LNA. – So you don’t feel that you are trapped in a very complicated
situation where you are sometimeinvolved in the clan divisions. You had
Puntland versus Somaliland, you had Abdullahi Yusuf versus Mohamed Gedi, you
have the Hawiye versus the Darods. You seem to be in a quagmire.
SM. – We
are not trapped in fact. It would be a political suicide for Ethiopia to
fight one to one, supporting any clan. As you might know Ethiopia is a home
of millions of Somalis of its own nationals. So almost all the clans you
have in Somalia are replicated on this side of the border as well. Thus
Ethiopia is a genuine broker for peace and reconciliation in Somalia.
Ethiopia has not gone there to crown Abdullahi Yusuf as king of Somalia or
somebody else. Or against a particular clan or in support of another clan.
What Ethiopia has done is to fight international and local terrorists who
have been the source of bloodletting in Somalia. Today the Somali people are
very grateful of what Ethiopia is doing, assisting them in the establishment
of rule of law in the country. Truly we do’nt want to abuse this goodwill of
the Somali people of welcoming us in supporting them. We would like to
withdraw as early as possible. We can only withdraw in a responsible manner,
we cannot allow the situation to unravel again and leave a vacuum in
Somalia. We are assisting the government to build its own capacity, build
troops, police, security and government. We will not be trapped because
Ethiopia is not fighting any other commmunity in Somalia, except the
terrorists and they are now reduced to fragmented terrorist elements
creating security concerns.
LNA. – What is the perspective for Ethiopia. This military operation is a
financial burden. And you said that not enough money is coming to help the
transitional government. Can you go on for a long period. I suppose that you
would like to have a deadline to withdraw.
SM. –
Precisely we are urging the IC, the African Union, the European Union and
other actors to discharge their responsability by supporting the
institutions of Somalia to build their own capacity and to assist them in
peacebulding by deploying peacekeepers from Africa or from the UN. Any other
formula is not going to assist the Somalis. Secondly, Ethiopia is not only
fighting the terrorists in Somalia, Ethiopia is also assisting in the
capacity building of the government. The Somalis are building their troops,
they are training their police, building their ministries to function. That
would definitely ease the burden for Ethiopia and allow to withdraw. We have
already withdrawn two thirds of our troops from July onwards. One third
remains mainly in Mogadiscio. We are hoping and we are confident that we
would be able to withdraw these troops if two things happen. One : if the
international community’s response is very responsible and immediate we will
be withdrawing from Somalia. We don’t want to spend even an extra day in
Somalia. Two : If the IC fails to discharge its responsability, definitely
Ethiopia would continue to assist the government to control the situation
and then would withdraw soon.
« Eritrea has committed a material
breach by occupying the Temporary Security Zone »
LNA. – We have spent a long time about Somalia but there is another
problem which might produce a new confrontation : the border issue with
Eritrea. Seven years ago a peace agreement was signed in Algiers but the
boundary problem has still not been solved. And last September Ethiopia has
warned that the Algiers’ agreement could be terminated. What does this
threat mean ?
SM. –
You know that Eritrea has committed a material breach by occupying the
Temporary Security Zone (TFZ). This zone was established under the Algiers’
agreement of cessation of hostilities. It is a 25 km zone all along the
border area. And the UN peacekeeping mission was deployed in this area.
Today the security area does not exist anymore. It has been 100% occupied by
Eritrea. Secondly the peacekeeping mission of the UN has been paralyzed by
Eritrea’s restrictions of movement of these troops. So Eritrea has
demolished the cessation of hostilities of Algiers. And Ethiopia has
notified Eritrea that they cannot be allowed to continue with their material
breach if they are for the Algiers’ agreement. Ethiopia’s understanding is :
if Eritrea fails to reverse its occupation of the TFZ, it means that they
have moved out of the Algiers’ agreement. This is what we have notified, and
not that we are withdrawing from the Algiers’ agreement. We will act as a
responsible party but the IC and Eritrea have to understand that Ethiopia
cannot be expected to remain abiding the peace agreement when one of the
parties has totally demolished this agreement.
LNA. – If the Algiers’ agreement is terminated, what would that mean ?
SM. –
Ethiopia wants this agreement to remain in force and lead us to
normalization of relations, finalizing the demarcation of the border and
towards engagement between Eritrea and Ethiopia. But Ethiopia alone cannot
achieve this. We need a peace partner and the world knows that Ethiopia has
no peace partner in Asmara. That is the problem.
Democratization : « Ethiopia is in the
process of fundamental transformation »
LNA. – I would like to have your comments on some domestic political
issues. Friends of your country noticed with great interest the political
evolution. But after the May 2005 elections Ethiopia’s image as a
modernising country has been shattered because of the great number of people
arrested and kept in jail without charges. The Economist wrote
recently : “Opposition leaders were accused of hugely inflated crimes, such
as treason and attempt of genocide”. Would you understand that it is
difficult for observers to take at face value some arguments your government
is opposing to criticism concerning the state of democracy in Ethiopia ?
SM. –
You know there are various perceptions and various sides of the story. It
depends from which perspective you see the process of democratization in
Ethiopia. If you are looking it from the perspective of fault finders,
definitely at any time they would have it. If you see from the perspective
of a social transformation where you cannot calculate it like mathematics,
one plus one is two on base ten or certain formulas, the challenge is there
: Ethiopia is in the process of fundamental transformation. This process,
transforming a society, is full of pitfalls, ups and downs and zigzags. This
is what Ethiopia is facing. This does not mean that Ethiopia is not
progressing firmely towards democratization, of the country, of the society,
of the state. There has been tremendous achievement during the last decade
and a half. Ethiopia’s building of institutions, of gouvernance are more
firm and solid. They cannot be judged with the outcome of one election or
with elections scenarios as test of the democratization of the country.
Let us come to
the issue you mentionned. The 2005 post election. One thing that the IC has
confirmed is that the will of the people has not been subverted. The will of
the people has been honoured. But any challenge could happen. There cannot
be any perfect election anyway.
LNA. – My point was not about the election but about the repression with
accusations like attempt of genocide.This word is now used for the killing
of ten persons but it has a very precise definition. It is something
serious.
SM. –
Yes it was very serious. One : the opposition wanted to dismantle a
government placed on the basis of the Constitution by the means of violence
and unconstitutional means. This is treason by any standard of Constitution
of any country. This is what they have been accused.
Two : they have made a specific ethnic group as a target. They have been
campaigning on that hate propaganda. That is what happened in Rwanda in
1994. Nobody is saying that what happened in Rwanda was not a genocide.
LNA. – But nothing of that sort has happened in Ethiopia.
SM. – It
did not happen but it does not mean that they have not attempted. So the
charges were that they have been attempting to lead the country towards that
bloodbath.
LNA. – Let me ask this : why did Bereket Simon say before the election
that the opposition leaders are “Interhamwes” ?
SM. –
Because their main direction was hate propaganda, it was not a propaganda
for elections. The Interhamwes were the leaders of hate propaganda. So what
our opposition was doing was not campaigning for election, but they have
been deeply involved in hate propaganda against certain ethnic groups in the
country. It was dangerous. This was the accusation they have been charged
with.Then there have never been opposition members which were detained
without charges. They have been charged, tried by the court of Justice and
we have now what the decisions of the court were. Some were thrown into life
imprisonment, some were sentenced to 25 years, 20 years, 15 years and so on.
Now the government and the people of Ethiopia wanted to leave this behind us
and look forward. The clemency has been of a tremendous tolerance and
accommodation. This must be evaluated in view of Ethiopia’s transformation.
The other point
: it is said that Ethiopia’s image has been tainted. For those who have been
expecting for perfection and anything to go smooth, that might be so. But
Ethiopia is continuing to build its institutions of good governance, to
build institutions of democracy with full committment and fiercely fighting
poverty. Ethiopia to day is one of the few hopeful in Africa to achieve the
Millenium goals. It is registering an economic development, a real growth of
GNP on the average of 10%. We are not an oil country, we are an agrarian
country. We have reached tremendous achievement in the areas of education,
health, social programs and so on. This cannot simply come on its own. It is
associated with the transformation of the politics, of the legal system, of
the state system.
LNA. – You might think we are more interested in the problems of your
country. It does not mean that we are not aware of progress and economic
development. But one knows that Ethiopia is a multiethnic country with an
important minority, the Oromos and there is an ancient debate about their
place in Ethiopia. Number of them are not supporting OPDO, your partner in
the government, but most of these are not favourable to OLF either but to
some opposition groups represented in the parliament like OFDM whose leader
is Bulcha Demeksa. He has complained that recently thousands of Oromos,
including followers of his party, have bee jailed. Is he right ?
SM. –
His problem is : crying foul has become a phenomenon of opposition groups in
Africa in general. He cannot prove it. He says that his followers have been
emprisonned by thousands, that his offices in the country side have been
closed and so on, and when he was asked were people have been arrested, he
could not prove it. So crying foul is not the game of politics. He should
continue to participate in the democratic process through democratic means,
through the building of opposition parties. Unfortunately this is not what
Bulcha Demeksa and the other opposition leaders are doing. For them fault
finding, baseless allegations are the day to day engagement of their
parties. We do accept that democracy cannot be complete without loyal
opposition, not loyal to the party in power but loyal to the Constitution
and the rule of law. But at the same time our western friends and partners
think they can create opposition parties through artificial insemination
over night. It needs time for the opposition to mature.
Ogaden : « There is no hidden and dirty
war »
LNA.
– According to recent news, the situation in Ogaden is deteriorating and
there could be a humanitarian problem. What is really going on because we
have has head lines like in the Guardian : “Ethiopia’s dirty war”.
The UN factfinding mission has pointed at serious violations of human
rights. The International Comittee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has been
expulsed, Médecins sans Frontières (MSF) had to stop its operations in that
region. What is the situation ?
SM. –
There is a disgruntled group among the Somalis calling itself ONLF. The
government has been trying to resolve this problem by peaceful means,
involving the population a year ago. Somali elders even travelled to various
capitals in Europe to find the leaders of this group. Because they try to
lead this rebellion from Stockholm, from London, from Copenhagen and so on.
The elders travelled and tried to talk to these people that raising arms in
present Ethiopia has no place because if any community is not happy, they
have the constitutional guaranteed means of peacefully divorcing from the
country. So by force they cannoy achieve anything. But the rebellion leaders
never heed the call of the people and the call of the government and finally
they committed a heinous crime, a massacre, attacking a camp of a company
involved in exploration works. And this is what they have done. The least a
credible government could do is give security and stability to the country.
So the government has taken a fierce mesure against this group which has now
been completely neutralized in the region. There were collateral damages.
Yes. But not as to the accusation MSF tried and also the ICRC. They have
been telling the world that several villages have been erased to ground,
that thousands of people were moving from one place to the other, and the UN
went and did not find any village burnt down, did not find any population
displaced from their villages. The UN mission never said that there has been
gross violations of human rights, they never said that there is a
humanitarian disaster. What they said is, if not checked at the earliest
possible time, in three, four months down the road, there could be a
humanitarian disaster or crisis. So they urged for immediate relief
assistance to reach the needy people. This is what the UN and Ethiopia are
doing today. We have launched a huge humanitarian assistance in the region,
security has been guaranteed, business is back to normal, activities are
going normal. There is no hidden and dirty war as those who tried to open a
different agenda for Ethiopia. The ICRC was thrown out of the region simply
because they tried to propagate a situation that never existed. They are now
regretting it. Concerning MSF, I met the international president recently in
Addis. He admits that what his people did on the ground was absolutely
wrong, going to the public and make statements which are not reflecting the
reality in the area.
LNA. – I don’t understand what is the interest of a NGO to make false
statements ?
SM. –
Ask them. It is not Ethiopia saying it. This is what the UN is saying.
LNA. – In your opinion the ONLF actions are to be considered in the
context of terrorism ?
SM. – It
is part of the overall drive in the region because they have been pushed to
commit this crime assisted by Eritrea and by the al-Shebab group, the
Islamic courts and so on.
LNA. – Let us return to Franco-Ethiopian relations. Do you expect changes
since there is a new president in France and a new government ?
SM. – We
expect naturally an enhanced cooperation, between Africa and France, because
the situation requires so. And there is good will from the government of
France to remain committed to the partnership with Africa and we will work
on that.
LNA. – Is there a specific program or project in the context of bilateral
relations ?
SM. – We
have agreed to revitalize the mixed commission we have between France and
Ethiopia. We have given serious consideration to enhancement and
diversification of our cooperation in basic areas and we hope to go into the
mechanism we have established and see it functional as soon as possible.
LNA. – The mixed commission did not meet for a long time ?
SM. –
For almost four years but now we have agreed to relaunch that.
LNA. – In December Africa and Europe will meet at a summit in Portugal.
Critics have been expressed in Africa about the European commercial
propositions which seem to be less favourable to Africa than the Cotonou
agreement. What is the Ethiopian position in this respect ?
SM. –
The same position that Africa is expressing. The main direction for Europe
must be to open up the markets for African products. Any other consideration
to deny a huge European market for African exports would definitely have a
major negative impact on the growth of trade and on social development in
Africa. So we are urging Europe to be open and to assist Africa also in
capacity building to meet required demands. But at the same time Europe had
declared this EBA (Everything But Arms). It has to remain in place. Now they
are trying to take this out and to go in the fixation of the World Trade
Organization (WTO). As you know the WTO Doha Round has not yet been
successful. We are witnessing a lot of retreats from the industralized
countries in opening up their markets to the products of developing
countries. That is going to create a lot of damages and imbalance in the
trade movement. We are urging Europe not to shut the door.
LNA. – Thank you.
SOURCE:
http://www.lesnouvelles.org
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